Reporting Clan-Mates - Debate

[Deep_Pain]

it is very much interfering with staff action.

The only question asked is should the person be kicked from the clan.

This totally negates any decision staff come to. How can a decision staff make stand, if there has already been a vote by clan members that the perpatrator of this "type" of offence should be banned?

The only question asked was a vote on whether the person should stay or not, a vote without all the facts to hand.

It completely interferes with what action the staff may be taking.

It was 99% certain this vote was going to happen but instigated by staff with all the facts, but it is completely unfair to start asking clan members to make a decision based on incomplete facts. However at the same time how can we do what we may or may not have planned if the majority, short of facts or not, had voted in favour of kicking the perpatrator of this "type" of offence. This post is trying to make the decision for us.

Someone is being singled out, Froboz has already named who did this on the locked thread. The question was should the perpatrator be kicked? Well the perpatrator has been named. How is this not aimed at he perpatrator?

If the majority of people had voted that the person be banned on this post, short of facts or not, how could any decision made by staff stand if it wasnt to kick him out? or the opposite, if the staff had decided that he should leave, how ca it stand if the majority had voted he should stay.

I'm not saying the clan do not deserve a vote, it was pretty much the conclusion we had come to, but starting a vote without all the facts is unfair, starting a vote deciding if a member should be banned or not without the authority to do so is a lynch mob.

[Ewsentinel]

Personally speaking, if a clan discussion (opinions, not decisions on clan policy) about an important issue can derail the staff

[Deep_Pain]

this thread was made after the person was named, not before, the facts were at hand about who did this when this thread was made.

Do you really think that if the majority had voted on banning the perpatrator of this type of offence and the staff later posted there findings that they were not going to ban the person, that this vote would have no effect at all on peoples view of the staff action taken?

As also mentioned nowhere am i trying to squelch clan participation, the thread was locked so the staff could look into it and meanwhile let people calm down, I think a debate on the rule wouldnt have been a problem, we stated quite clearly that thre would be a new rule on no reporting in clan chat, this rule covers the whole debate here, if somebody wanted to debate that rule, there is no problem.

However that rule is not being debated, it was specifically asking people to vote on should someone who does report in clan chat banned, something that does interfere with the staff decision.

I havent locked this thread for that reason, for my points to be discussed, but asked meanwhile while staff are still discussing the matter for it not to be voted on, i dont think that is unfair of squelching debate.

squelching debate would be to lock this thread and throw away the key.

[Ewsentinel]

Ok. We're at a bit of an impasse (just yours and my discussion about the principles of the issue, not the person or persons). So, I'll let most of it lay, and just say that we'll agree to disagree. However, I'll reply to one more thing...

Do you really think that if the majority had voted on banning the perpatrator of this type of offence and the staff later posted there findings that they were not going to ban the person, that this vote would have no effect at all on peoples view of the staff action taken?

I think the people's view of the staff action taken is irrelevant. When it comes to clan leadership, at the moment of deciding clan decisions, there has to be a bit of disconnect between the socialization (need for approval) and the legislative decision. In short (this is not a dictate to you, but simply a conceptual point), being a leader means making the hard decisions, especially if they are unpopular, as long as they are the right decisions.

[Deep_Pain]

I agree, the hard decision I am making at the moment although seemingly disagreed with by most, is that to save further and possibly worse arguments down the line,  I think this vote shouldnt be allowed and neither the discussion on whether this perpatrator or "type" of perpatrator should be banned until people are in full possesion of the facts. facts we will post as soon as we are in a position to.

Also the decision that if a topic is locked, it is locked for a reason and shouldnt be re-opened, if someone feels a topic requires further discussion to discuss that with the staff, not to reopen a topic saying if you feel this should be locked again lock it.

[dirtee turky]

pretty sure one the clan requirements was obey all jaggex rules no?.. dont think clan leadership should hafta to be like jaggex rule police or any thin.. however if some ones is gonna break a rule and nuthin mentioned of it the same should apply if a member reports nuther member for rule breakin,, nuthin mentioned of it... tbh i left my last( mature) clan cause of lack of action by clan leadership allowing offensive names into clan cc wich is a jaggex rule..just seeing the name doctor dildo in cc really urked me.. adult cc??adult? did i report him ? no.. i left the clan with that explanation... later found out his name was changed to some random jaggex change name.. lol.. looks good on em....

[Sir Chris]

WOOT! OLD POST DIG UP OF THE DAY WINNER!
lol
Short version as I have to leave for work soon:
We DO enforce rules but handle it internally.
Trust me, I wont be reporting anyone. If the say they are breaking a rule, we simply ask that they do not mention/talk about it in chat. Your account your business (IMO).
If rule breaking is continuous and/or severe enough, there are steps we take with respect to clan member status.
JaGEx can handle the rest on their own.

[Deep_Pain]

it's weird how a lot of the older posts have a lot of text missing.

but yeah, 5 stars on digging up old posts

[TrixStar]

I'm more annoyed by people acting like idiots in CC than rule breaking lol.

[onezerobin]

Are you implying something about some members? Idiots are tolerable, but me can't tolerate morons :lol:

[KevinsLunchbox]

Well since I found this and although the last post is somewhat old I figured I could put in my views but then again I wouldn't want to bring back a dead thread, after consulting the magic conch shell, here is my input.

I personally think reporting members in-game is rather stupid because as we are all adults (some more than other) I'm pretty sure we all can take a joke, or let a few somewhat bad words pass, but overall unless they are being extremely rude, offensive, or racist, instead of reporting in-game just tell someone in the clan higher rank, or something so that they can deal with it, rather then have Jagex's league of robots deal with it. I'm not saying its acceptable to talk rude to people, but if its something small, and is a joke or something sarcastic, I don't see a problem.

Overall reporting in-game for anything that has to do with language or words to me seems rather stupid because in our society today, those words are being said everywhere all the time. There are those few kids who play who have strict parents and what not, but in my opinion, cussing is good for them, I find it annoying when parents over protect their kids because in the real world outside of mommy and daddys house, those words will be said and if an adult is not used to it by then, they are in for a big surprise y'know?

So there it is, reporting in-game for stuff thats simple like cussing is lame, but reporting in-game for hacking, scamming, and stuff like that is acceptable but I doubt anyone here is gonna try to scam or hack anyone. If someone is being rude or something in the cc, just let someone like avi or kale know, I'm sure they'll handle it (actually I don't know who to tell).

There you go, p.s. here is a picture of the magic conch shell

[Dr Brad]

One of KoA's rules is:

No reporting KoA members ingame. We deal with rule breaking internally. Report by PMing an admin.

[Bass]

One of KoA's rules is:

No reporting KoA members ingame. We deal with rule breaking internally. Report by PMing an admin.

So does this apply strictly to the clan chat? Private Chat? Or both?

[KevinsLunchbox]

To answer your question Bass we shall ask the magic conch.

"So does this apply strictly to the clan chat? Private Chat? Or both?"

"yes it does, no matter what between cc or public, or private chat, if someone within Koa is harassing you, let the admins know, The magic conch has spoken"

I hope that helped Bass, sorry for being late as well

[Deep_Pain]

bah, could u have answered this question a month ago when he asked

I hate this post, half the text got lost in the numerous forum updates and it makes very little sense to those who read it with all the free bumps its gotten since 2 years ago when it was posted lol.